Thinking
about opening up your 2400?|
hardware
upgrade page, July 22, 2002
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In the age of the iBook Glenn Fong provides an objective 2400 vs iBook perspective.
By Ralph Mawyer, Jr. (rev: 14 Dec
01)
(Original Posting: 13 Mar 99)
Well, at over four years old now, the PB 2400 is definitely generations behind the latest iBooks. Probably what continues to amaze diehard 2400 fans is how functional it remains. Some even consider its screen crisper than the iBook's...albeit smaller. If you just picked up a PB 2400 from eBay or our For Sale page you may be wondering whether it's worth upgrading and what's involved. Hopefully, some of the following will get you on your way. As always, we strongly suggest the DuoList for the place to get almost realtime guidance on most any question you might have about upgrading your 2400.
There are three significant upgrades you should consider for your PB 2400:
#1 ...Add a 64MB RAM chip to bring your memory to 80MB.#2 ...Upgrade your harddrive, which get bigger, faster and cheaper by the quarter.
#3 ...Have MCE enable CardBus, thus expanding your PB 2400's functionality.
These three upgrades will dramatically improve the performance and useability of your PB 2400.
Whether you risk your PB 2400 by doing the install yourself or have it done professionally, you really only want to do this once, though the memory upgrade process is not as invasive as the HD or Processor upgrade. The last two pretty much require you to disassemble the entire machine.
Pricing Scenario: (14 Dec 01/rpm)
Memory: While the 64MB chip is the standard maximum upgrade, a 96MB chip is available in Japan and will work in the PB 2400. Bill Fox of Mac's Only can get this for around $369 on a special order basis. They are getting rare...seriously rare. Shop around for 64MB RAM. Prices fluctuate dramatically and by the hour. As of this writing they have been seen for $50.Harddrives: 20GB to 40GB @ $100-?
DealMac is probably the best place to determine current pricing on bare harddrives. New 20GB IBM Travelstar have been going for around $100 and 30GB drives for $150. Used drives can be found much cheaper, but at these prices why tear your machine apart and risk a used drive failure.CardBus Enablement: $100
Once you've had this done you really extend the life of your 2400 because now you can use CardBus-enabled PC cards for Firewire, USB, SmartMedia and CompactFlash memory cards, etc. 16-bit Ethernet and modem cards are supported without this enhancement.
G3 upgrade cards are no longer made. Newer declared bankruptcy and Vimage/Interware is gone also. You can still find a rare new one on eBay or a 2400 with one already installed. The Interware G3/320 is probably the sweet spot for these. It uses a copper based board and actually runs a bit cooler than the original 603e processor. It's performance is close to it's G3/400 sibling, but was prices much better...and of course runs a bit cooler.
Newer G3's have been seen on eBay in the $100-200 range. Interware G3s are rarer, but seem to go for $250-350.
Original Upgrade Options:Newer Technology offered standard aluminum trace -based cards, these tended to run a hotter than the copper based cards. Two models were available last selling at:
G3/240 with 512KB backside cache @ appx. $350
G3/240 with 1MB backside cache @ appx. $600Vimage offered aluminum (G3/240) and copper based (G3/320) cards:
G3/240 with 512KB backside cache @ appx. $490
G3/320 with 1MB backside cache @ appx. $900
Bottomline:
With no other ultra-light PB on the market(thought iBooks are getting there), Duo's excepted, the PB 2400 remains a popular, but unique product. If you are fully (in)vested in serial and SCSI devices, seriously think you'll keep you PB 2400 for at least another 18 months and don't tend to run either heavy graphics and/or Win95 emulation to a great degree then it may be worth considering. Plus, if MCE does the install, they'll most likely tighten all those loose screws that Apple apparently let run amuk in various PB 2400s.
The big question is, if $1200-1600 will buy you a new G3 iBook then why have $500-1000 invested in a PB 2400? Why not just sell your PB 2400 for $300 add the $500 toward a new iBook? Maybe for the same reason folks drop inordinate amounts of money into 57 Chevys, MGs and other assorted hobbies/avocations...they like what they have and want to make it better.
Thoughts? Drop us a line or share them on the Duolist.
From Steve Auer's July 1999 Newer G3/240 upgrade experience...
"I just purchased the Newer Technology G3 upgrade for my 2400c from MCE. I also had them do the hard drive upgrade while it was open. I would like to share my experience. First, I would like to thank Ash & Ralph for this informative site. Most everything I have learned regarding the 2400c, I have learned here!MCE...I can't say enough about this company! Being a consultant here in Palm Beach, Florida gives me the opportunity to deal with many companies. I rarely find any of them savvy. However, MCE is one of those rare companies that understood what I was saying, qualified me and made suggestions based on my needs, rather than their inventory or quotas! I called and spoke to Kevin. He spent quite awhile on the phone, and after verifying the price for the Newer 240/1MB L2 cache G3 upgrade special @ $249.00 plus $99.00 for installation and 2 day Fed-Ex return shipping, he proceeded to recommend the IBM 6.4 gig HD upgrade. The G3, HD, install, and return shipping was only $579.00! Yippee! (They even sent me a free ADB flex light). Imagine my surprise when Kevin offered to back up my 1.3 gig to the new 6.4 IBM! After seeing the sign above CompUSA‚s service desk here in West Palm Beach...‰We are NOT responsible for lost data‰, this was indeed an unexpected treat, saving me a couple of hours!
I sent my beloved 2400c out on a Friday. On the following Tuesday, I called Kevin to verify it‚s arrival. He confirmed it had arrived, and he would be installing the G3 on Wednesday. On Thursday, it was done and on the way back to me! How‚s that for service?! I picked it up on Monday from Fed-Ex and hurriedly opened the box! Wow, I wasn‚t disappointed. BTW, the only time I had my 2400c opened before, was when I had an Apple authorized tech install the 64MB upgrade. Since then, it has never quite fit together like it did when it was new...The spacebar was tilted higher on the left side, the keys were loose, and the lid felt different. When I got it back from MCE, it felt BETTER than new! The keys were tight, screen hinges tighter, spacebar level, all in all, a new machine!
A few things about the Newer 240/1MB upgrade...The only software included is a control panel, which changes the backside cache speed. ( I keep it at 160mhz because if I put it higher, I freeze)! Also, the control panel can determine where the Newer logo will appear on the MacOS startup screen, either below, above, or inside. The first thing I did was run Apple‚ system profiler DA. It, however reported a 256 L2 cache with the 240mhz PPC750CPU. Now, sinceI knew Newer only made a 512 and a 1MB 240mhz, I knew it had to be wrong! After calling MCE, I was told that the DA does not recognize the upgrade card, and that I should use the Newer gauge series so conveniently left on my desktop by MCE! How nice...The Cache-22 v1.5.4 correctly reported the 1 MB L2 cache.
Heat...? You betcha! I mostly use my 2400c in an air conditioned hotel at night while on the road for business. I have measured the temperature between 75 &155 (without my 3.0 wet suit). Not as hot as some I have read that reach 175! Raising the bottom an inch off the desk seems to keep temperature lower.
Would I do it again? Absolutely! Am I happy? Well, I bought a G3 233 powerbook at the same time as I bought the 2400c. I sold the G3 2 weeks later after taking both on the road! Now, I have the best of both worlds...A light, reliable, quick sub-notebook, that doesn't weigh me down!
I carry my external floppy and cd rom drive (4X Sony) in my suitcase, and carry my PCMCIA modem, AC adaptor and my G3 2400c in the notebook case.
Any questions, I will be glad to help!" Steve Auer (9 Jul 99)
Thinking
about opening up your 2400?NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART...as evidenced by the eBays listings that read "I'm parting out my 2400 because I broke it trying to upgrade/repair it"....at least if you read between the lines. :-)
Even
if you are technically skilled, replacing anything beyond the memory
on the 2400 is taking a risk. Go to an Authorized Apple Service
Provider for hard drive installs, and any other major service.
Don't risk your machine.
G3 2400 Install.mov.sit - In 1998 Ash created a nine minute QuickTime movie documenting the installation of his then state-of-the-art Newer G3 upgrade card. This is a 35MB file and will take 15-20 minutes to download with a high-speed, DSL/Cable connection. If you need it, go for it...but a late night download would minimize the impact on the server. (rpm/22 Jul 02)
The credits for the snapshots on this page go to Hans Gerwitz for boldly taking his 2400 apart!
If you still insist in dissecting the beast here's a Piece-by-Piece (revised 16 Sep 00) approach courtesy of Ivan Drucker.
Another good disassembly sequence: http://members.aol.com/kim/computer/duo/2400cpu/2400upgrade.html
Another nice presentation of an Interware G3/400MHz upgrade: http://www.10k.org/~jake/comet/interware (rpm/18 Jul 00)
Just came across this on the DuoList...good pictures:
http://www.genchan.com/
(rpm/22 Nov 00)
Just need to replace your keycaps? Jerry Krinock tells you how here.
Chuck Goolsbee swears all this stuff is in there...so be careful: (DuoList/9 Jul 01/rpm)
To my recollection (based on having both my 2400c's in bits for the past two months and reassembling them countless times...)
- Motherboard (MCE CardBus mod done to this/rpm)
- CPU card
- I/O board (has the ports and power)
- One itty bitty IR & PC Card eject board. (Right above the video ribbon)
Those are the biggies. There is also the:
- RAM card
- PC card cage
- 3 RF shields
- Battery
- Hard Drive
- Trackpad assembly
- Keyboard.
The Screen assembly has the LCD, a small logic board, two hinges, the dimming switch, and the wire going up to the LED sleep light.
...and the metal frame at the back, and a plastic frame around the sandwich of boards, with PRAM battery, speaker and a Microphone!
...and about 50 teeny weeny screws.
Processor
Upgrades
The following options have been available over the life of the PB 2400:
- Newer Technologies G3/240 card with 512 KB backside cache at 120 Mhz
- Newer Technologies G3/240 card with 1 MB backsidecache at 160 MHz
- Vimage G3/240 'silicon / aluminum process'card with 512KB backside cache
- Vimage G3/320 'silicon / copper process'card with 1 MB backside cache
- Interware Booster G3/400 'silicon/copper process' card with 1 MB backside cache
- Locate a Japanese 2400/240 daughtercard and swap for /180
- Buy a new Japanese 2400/240 and replace the Japanese keyboard, if desired.
In any case, it is strongly suggested that you have a qualified service center install a new harddrive or processor daughter card. While upgrading the memory yourself is possible, with utmost care, you basically have to take your 2400 totally apart to install a harddrive or processor card.
As noted by Eric Dahlinger, Newer Technology, Inc.:
"There are 64 screws and the NUpowr G3 2400 does not come with an installation manual until Newer receives a singed waiver and manual request form that states that if you mess up the install, you have a problem. While the product has a warranty, the installation by a non-authorized person does not."Newer Technologies NUpower 2400 G3...
These were the first shipping G3 upgrades boards in the US.
Ash has an evaluation of an early release Newer G3/240/512 card here.
While Newer talked of a G3/320 Copper card at MacWorld SF 99 they never brought it to production. We've maintained this link for reference:http://mobile-dog.com/g3_diary/g3_bench.htmlMasayuki Yoshizawa, one of our Japanese readers who takes the time to decipher our writing here, provided the following link for what is apparently yet another Newer G3 upgrade card for the PB 2400. This is a 400MHz upgrade card with PPC750 (x10-clock available version). (8 Aug 99)
Overclocking the Newer G3/240 upgrade card...
Timothy A. Seufert offers the following suggestions for those wishing to pop popcorn on their PB 2400...while also crunching numbers a bit faster:
"I've already gotten a couple mails asking how to overclock the Newer G3/240 upgrade card for the 2400.I don't recommend it. I am about to go back to 240 myself, because it is just too dangerous heat-wise. I've had my 2400 do a thermal protection shutdown (if the internal temperature sensor starts reading too high, the PMU shuts the machine down without asking). I've only been getting away with it because I run Linux, which is great at using very little power; it's much better than MacOS processor cycling, and has no impact on performance. Even then I'm only getting away with it because I don't run CPU-intensive programs, and it still feels too hot.
If you really must, it's very simple. There is a 4-position DIP switch on the Newer card which sets the G3's bus multiplier ratio. By default it is set for a 6x ratio; with the 40 MHz bus of the 2400 the final CPU speed is 240 MHz. I just figured out the switch setting for a 7x ratio to get 280 MHz. I can't find my table of switch settings any more, so I can't help on that front." (Timothy Seufert/DuoList/29 Sep 99)
Vimage (Interware) G3/320 Copper & G3/240...
These cards originally went on sale in the U.S. in March, 1999, but are no longer available as new products.
Check out the latest test from Wade S. Martinson comparing the battery usage of the new G3/320 and the original 603e processors.(9 Apr 99)
With respect to operating temperature Wally Rodriguez noted on the DuoList that the highest temperature he's experienced with the Copper G3/320 is 172°F with the cover closed, compared to much higher readings with the 603e. (DuoList/7 Apr 99)
In addressing the question "What is a reasonable range of operating temperature(s) for a G3 chip?" Tim Seufert offered the following:
"There are three common temperature grades of the PPC 750. The rated operating temperature is 0 to 65, 85, or 105 degrees C.Note that these ratings refer to the maximum temperature at which they guarantee the chip will not generate errors, as opposed to the temperature at which physical damage is done to the chip. If you slightly exceed the rating, you're risking a crash, not harm. I'm not sure what the damage point is.
I looked at the CPU on my Newer 240/1M card when I installed it in my 2400, and as I recall it was the 85 degree temperature grade." Timothy A. Seufert"(DuoList/7 Apr 99)
While the G3/240 is similar to the Newer Technology's card in that it is silicon / aluminum-based, the G3/320 breaks new ground as it is silicon / copper-based and reportedly runs not only faster than any other PowerBook, but much cooler than the PB 2400's original 180MHz processor.
As Armin Kusig correctly points out, it's not that the processors are no longer silicon based, but that they now benefit from the IBM process which enables copper interconnections on the silcon chips, which in turn, results in reduced power consumption and heat.
Here's one of the first reports from Duo-List member Marc Nathanson:
Hello, Ash, Eric, et al...just wanted to drop in with a quick Vimage G3/320 report ($999 plus $99 install from MCE). How fast is the card? Here's a measuring stick for you: running Windows 95 on Virtual PC feels about as fast the Mac itself felt before the upgrade. Internet Explorer on VPC launches in six seconds - faster than I used to be able to launch Netscape on the MacOS (Netscape 4.05 now launches in about four to five seconds).For those of you who like hard numbers, I got a MacBench 5.0 processor score of 1045 while running just about every INIT in the book. Expensive, sure, but geez is it fast.(Marc Nathanson/9 Mar 99)
Locate a Japanese 2400/240 daughtercard & swap for 2400/180...
The other physical possibility is to replace the US 180MHz card with the 240MHz Mighty Cat card released in Japan. The popular assumption is you only need to find someone in Japan who is upgrading to the G3 and acquire their old card. If anyone works out the details on this, either individually or on a volume basis, please let us know.
Buy a new Japanese 2400/240...
While a bit more than just a processor upgrade, Tom has located a U.S. source for complete, new PB 2400/240.
"For those interested in the 2400/240, I found a Japanese company with a California office who said they could get me one. email contact: tania@tzone.com
Estimate was $2499 plus shipping from CA.
I investigated further and found someone in Japan who sent me the following test results. Decided against the 2400/240, because it was so much slower than the G3 (about 2x as slow according to those that answered my quieries)."
(Tom Klinkowstein/5 Nov 98)Toru Akiyama (Extremely Private PB2400c Page translation team)>>>
Here is the comparison of PB2400/240 and PB2400/G3 240/512K Backside cache using Norton's system info.
- CPU FPU Disk Video Total
- 2400/180 100 100 100 100 100
- 2400/240 101 100 125 125 119
- 2400/G3 207 168 119 119 153
Unfortunately, the comparison test was not performed same condition, meaning the values are just index and not reliable. But obviously, PB2400/G3 is faster than PB2400/240. And Clock-up of G3 card from Newer technology is very easy. Many people run the card at 260MHz without problem (of course the clock-up avoids the warranty. Be careful). If the cost is same, why do not you to buy PB2400/G3?
Hard
Drives18GB drives for the PB 2400 are now available from IBM and Hitachi.(19 Mar 00)
As noted in this PC Week story, hard drives manufacturers continue to compress more disk on the same space with IBM (Travelstar) and Fujitsu recently announcing drives up to 10GB in the 12.5mm form factor required for the PB 2400. (13 Nov 98/rpm)
Denny provides some interesting insight on the design of these
new IBM drives.
"I just purchased and installed one of the hard drives from MCE
into my 2400 this week. There are two potential problems your
readers may want to know about concerning this new drive.
First, the shorter size of the drive leaves a 3 mm gap between the drive and the heat conductive pad on the inside bottom of the case. This means that the drive won't be able to dissipate heat as well as the original 12.5 mm drive. I talked to a guy (didn't get his name) at MCE and he didn't know of any problems so far but he seemed disturbed that I brought the issue up. It apparently isn't something they've considered. The new drive runs at a higher RPM and contains a 512 KB cache that will make it run hotter than the original drive does. I suggested that MCE might want to include a thicker heat conductive pad for 2400 owners to install with the new drive. As hot as the 2400 already runs, I'm very concerned that this will be a problem. I've fashioned a small piece of aluminum (1.5" x 2" x 3 mm) that I've placed between the pad and hard drive using heat conductive compound. My 2400 seems hotter under the left palm rest which is above the hard drive.
Second, this drive formats above the 4GB SCSI disk mode limit. I was able to put the 2400 into SCSI disk mode with the new drive and copy my data from my desktop. It seemed to work alright but I definitely won't do this often. Information about the issue seems very sketchy."(Denny Hyde/17Sep98)
"...I have migrated from an IBM 4.3g to a 6.4g HD on a 2400. The 4.3 after HFS+ formatting came up completely in SCSI mode. The 6.4g was limited to my first 3 of 5 partitions, totaling around 4g. I left #4 as an HFS partition (thinking I might need to link w/HFS drives in SCSI mode) but after reformatting it to HFS+, it also comes up. So in total I have over 5g mounting in SCSI, 4 of 5 partitions.
The partitions that do/did not mount came up for initialization. Just select no/cancel. (Sidney Ho/24Jan99)
Hans Gerwitz confirms this: "If you care, I can verify this. I have been using the IBM 4 GB drive from MCE in my 2400c for months now, with no flaws (including SCSI mode)."
Avoid
Toshiba Drives...Maybe?"Several people have written me to the effect of--
I'm afraid I'm the originator of that rumor, and I should probably make some minor effort to clarify and save Toshiba's reputation somewhat.
I tried three of Toshiba's 3GB slimline model (MK3205MAV), one of them on two different 2400s, and found that it had intermittent, evidently temperature-related spinup problems in all cases. (From searching on dejanews, I believe I was the only person who posted on USENET about this, though I got email from another person with the same problems). The problem did NOT seem power-related (I don't know where that part of the rumor started, but I should have corrected it when I saw it appear).
The fact that the 3205 doesn't work on the 2400 leads one to be wary of Toshiba drives, but doesn't mean that other models won't work. (In fact, I pulled the old 19mm 2gb out of my 2300, sat it under the board on the 2400, and got it to work -- and it requires more power than the 3205). If one looks at the specs, the Toshiba 3205 (and the rest of their slimlines, I believe) should work with the 2400; some of the 4 and 6 gb models require a bit less power than the 3205, as well.
If you're still reading, also for consideration: (A) Toshiba service isn't anything like IBM's -- IBM will ship you a replacement drive, immediately, if you provide them the serial # on a in-warranty drive, and this fact made having my full 4gb die somewhat less horrific this summer :) (B) The Toshiba drives have, generally, less cache than their IBM counterparts, use more power overall (battery draining), and are slower.
Nonetheless, I can get the 6gb Toshiba for $320, $480 is the best I see the IBM for... maybe I should look harder for the IBM :)
And as always, YMMV" (Ken Thomas/12.11.98)
More...
Hi. I just wanted to report that I had attempted installing Toshiba's 3GB slimline (MK3205MAV) in my 2400, and after some time on the phone with Compu-D, one exchange of the drive, and more time on the phone with Toshiba and Apple, it still isn't fully successful (after using shutdown, the drive won't boot on the first time, nor at all unless the machine is cold).
The drive works fine in my 2300, and the 1.3GB Apple drive doesn't have the same problem, so Toshiba is arguing that there must be a problem with my 2400 board, and Apple that the drive must be incompatible with the 2400.
In any case, though I don't think many people are considering this drive (not listed by MCE), thought I might pass along that it might be a risky choice at this point. If Apple or someone else provides me with another 2400 to test it in, I'll pass on the results. - Ken Thomas
If you're interested in getting a PowerBook 2400, make sure you get extra memory! Be aware that this computer only has one extra memory slot. It can accept a single additional 16, 32, 64 or 96MB DIMM. Given the relatively low price of memory and the fact that you really don't want to have to open up the PB 2400 more than once, we strongly suggest adding the 64 MB DIMM, or if you have lots of money, the recently released 96MB DIMM.96 MB DIMMs?
While the 64MB chip is the standard maximum upgrade, a 96MB chip is available in Japan and will work in the PB 2400. Bill Fox of Mac's Only can get this for around $300. Shop around for 64MB RAM. Prices fluctuate dramatically and by the hour. (19 Mar 00/rpm)
128 MB DIMMS?
The short story is that ADTEC (a RAM maker) was encouraged to attempt development of a 128MB RAM card after receiving a petition from over 1,000 users of the 2400 in Japan. Over the past few months, the story flip-flopped between reports of partial success and failures in the development.
I appears that the final word came in October, 1998 when ADTEC announced that the architecture of the 2400 (itself) prohibits support for a 128MB upgrade card.Memory Installation
See Disassembly for detailed instructions.
Memory installation for this computer is not easy!The Memory Source (PowerBook Source) has a fairly up-to-date list for PowerBook 2400 memory prices.
- The Chip Merchant
- Newer RAM
- TechWorks
- Mac Components Engineered(MCE)
Prices change hourly. Always ask/push for a better price.
Memory Check on Start-Up
Upon installation of a 64MB DIMM you may notice that it takes longer for your PowerBook to wake from sleep. Your PowerBook is doing a memory check and the larger memory module makes the delay more apparent.
"You can also Command-Option open the memory control panel to get an option to bypass the RAM check..." System 8.5 Only (Jason Place/5 Nov 98)